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Some pictures of the machine completed

Decided to re-base my Adders after putting it off ages.. It was well fooked, needed doing.. Should last another 40 years now... 😂😎

I remember 18 months ago when i bagged a Winsprint for £50(buy it now). It was a Sunday evening and i had arranged to pick it up on the Monday evening. That was one nervous 24 hours. There is nothing like that feeling when you have loaded it in the van and are just driving away.

Yet another board nearly drove me to insanity. Maybe I'm lossing my touch with age, who knows. Usual battery rot symptoms so all the usual suspects whipped out and renewed. A bit of track patching out needed for the alpha and triac driver links but other than that pretty clean. So on power up (with diags) the triacs all test OK then the tester alpha comes up with MPU4 ALPHATEST OK so all looking good. Thinking I'm in for an early day and just waiting for the lamp tests to start it comes up with an alarm and a bit of garbage on the alpha although I can see it's trying to say 'alarm' but no idea what. The RAM solder joints were looking a bit crusty so I thought that better come out, just in case, which was good as it failed on my tester. I've had similar issues before, like the previous fault above, so it's always a good idea to check out IC16 and put it in a socket which then gives you the option to isolate the CS feeds to all the support chips. Isolating IC5 the alarm was still apparent but the alpha then stopped on a readable 6840 error. Of course changing the chip made no difference. Just a little teaser here, I'd checked the 5v previously and it was a bit low at 4.77v but we all know TTL min rating is 4.5v and it boots OK so I thought I'd come back to that later. Big mistake!! Anyway back at the ranch getting nowhere and contemplating taking out all the support chips and putting in sockets which I did. After each replacement no change to the fault so 2 days later I'm losing the will to live. By now I've made sure all the Address and Data lines are intact plus every other line from the cart to the board. I'm thinking there must be a corroded via somewhere that I've missed. Rapidly running out of ideas and it's now day 3. There's only two options left, the first one is to jump in the Thames but maybe option two first. Thought I'd go back to the low voltage supply and see what's going on there. After stripping down the regulator I thought I'd run a test on the LM323 with my bench PSU and lo and behold it stuck solidly at 5v?? Hmm, what am I missing here? Tried a spare regulator chassis and blow me the board booted and ran fine. After all that wasted work but hey ho it works so put away the swimming trunks. So what was going on with the original regulator? Putting it back with the little board again it's measuring 5v off load but if I put a 12R resistor across the output it drops to 4.77v. It was then I noticed something on the radio. I listen to Caroline on 648Khz and putting the resistor on the output more or less blocked out the radio signal! Suspicion then pointed towards the tant cap that decouples the input to the LM323. When a new one was fitted the voltage remained stable under load at 5v. As the wires to the board power socket weren't attached they probably acted like an aerial otherwise I would have noticed this before. I'm sure someone up there doesn't like me.

Hi all, I think I mentioned these devices a few weeks back so I thought I'd purchase a few and have a play. If you're not aware these devices can emulate ROMs and come in all the sizes and will do masked ROMs too although I haven't got there yet. Amazing so far and so many things I haven't tried yet. They are about a tenner each but the time and effort they save it's a no brainer. The devices can be flash programmed in seconds so no waiting 20-30 mins to erase ROMs and re-burning when you're testing patches to code. Then plugging them in to test and finding they don't work! (yep we've all been there) Once installed in the ROM socket they can be re-programmed in situ via USB. Here's a pic using an MPU3 card... Also big and smaller brothers. They do devices for larger chips but I don't need them as yet. Another advantage of these is you can save multiple images which can be selected by the jumpers so changing code can be done in seconds. Of course in the case of MPU3 & 4 you can't put them in the case as it's not deep enough but that's fine just for testing purposes. Another advantage is you can put the whole image on one device and patch the CS lines to the empty sockets (not tried this as yet) but it's all explained in the blurb. I needed to use these due to trying to defeat the CHR and CRC check as burning traditional ROMs was taking all day. It can now be done in seconds. I'd like to thank John Parker for his assistance with this and taking the time to explain it. Cheers John you are a squire and a gentleman sir. For the guys out there that like hacking ROMs for changing the gameplay, I think these devices will be a godsend. It does also mention in the blurb you can change bytes on a running system, not tried that either but it's all terrific stuff.

Finally got this done! Had a fair bit to do and it took a while to get the small glass that smashed re made as well as the missing button decals, it’s came out really well, I will tell the story with pictures first job the base and structure of the cab

Then the frames were painted in a matched ral colour

Chips and dings to the wood grain cabinet were filled and painted to Match as best I could get

Some fucking scummy dealer. It will all come out in the wash, will be up for sale for £££££ soon once they've paid someone a fortune to fix it for them! 🤣

Let's hope they haven't gone to the bakery

if like me you have a 4 pound HIT THE TOP MPU4 machine but it has the capped 4 POUND nudge roms (version 2.0) i have taken the 3 pound version 1 where the game is a million times better and changed the jackpot (proparly) to 4 pounds so you can play the better game inside the 4 pound display glass. HIT OR MISS is offered everygame and not capped to being occasional. and all nudges come out if you win the HIT and not just the amount needed for the win and you can save them back in again. Fantastic version of it and it still meets percentage. This is a 256k one file i use for one ROM but you can split it. if you cant then message me and i will do it JAMES 8 - - HIT THE TOP - v1 -ALL CASH - 4 POUND JACKPOT - beta 1

I think at this stage i would looking to try and get both mpu`s on a test jig to confirm or not wether they are working on all inputs and outputs, as Bob said there is no documention for these add ons and unless you trace every wire out manually you are shooting in the dark somewhat. You could have a faulty mpu that will work in one machine and not in another. Dont give up on it, i know how frustrating it can get.🙂

I love it Ron, what a fantastic job you have done 👏 I need to give mine a bit of love as well, when I get the time! fancy doing another one 😅

The newly made small glass was fitted along with the missing button decals

As sort of expected, they’ve been stood in damp. luckily, super 7’s is the best of the 3 and after a couple of new platforms and castors it’s solid and in need of a huge clean. the clubber, was only ever bought for its Sru parts inside… and to be scrapped. the big banker, well… the cab is very bad and very wobbly… yeah, it can be saved - weighing up weather it’s worth the effort and parts for its value after all time sorting base… These are the issues people never see…. Everybody sees the £156, nobody sees the £200 to get them to me, the work the parts bla bla bla and most importantly the time. 3 members on here have enquired about buying already, and a previous buyer has too… worth it? Probably not… but that’s the gamble A nest in the bottom, and a base that caved in when machine weight was on it.. screws will be countersunk and wood painted… castors washers etc etc. trial fit always first.

Cheers pics to come in the plenty

That makes sense now, I also never noticed the quantity of 3. Fair play mark I wanted to buy them and had a good 10 mins to ponder I hope they are saved and put back out there. i have had a few lucky buys over the years the latest being razzle dazzle for 50 quid! And £120 to get it here. its great there is still stuff out there to be saved

The reason the seller has cancelled the sale is because it's you! The reason he's cancelled people you know is because they are trying to get stuff for you. I have done the same, as don't want anything I'm selling to go to you. It must happen to you a lot 🤣

Worth removing the wires from the coin switch and phsically touching them together, see what happens.

They would, all the bleep means is it's changing state but if the state is wrong... could be way off the mark here but thought I'd chuck it in the mix.

No other mpu4 machines Nick! I will try another hopper disc, I'm guessing I should see 24v at the hopper permanently and it's switched on via the relay? If so will check on that too. Thanks Ronnie

Hi Ron, so the way you describe the fault as a pound jammed in the opto would also be a faulty hopper opto. It could be registering the Jam as is its simply never seeing the infra red LED. When the £1 passes it breaks the infra Red LED 'beam'. If the LED is never there its always stuck like a Jam. As I say if any of the plugs ever go on wrong in the hopper the opto LED will frazzle.

Ronnie if you have any other mpu4 machines you can try your mod4 s in those perhaps ?

This is something I come across all the time ie lack of documentation on how later additions to a tech are not available. The only way to get to the bottom of these things is to trace out all the associated wiring and document it, at least then others can cast an eye over it and perhaps make more informed suggestions. I do find this fascinating as I've never worked with hoppers (all too new ). I'm sure you'll crack it Ronnie. Bonne chance as they say in France.

I do get that outlook, but without parts - all I’m doing is offering an empty fucked shell which I now need to keep dry, and be around for it to be collected. With all the dreamers and timewasters out there, it’s dead time and effort. I’m very very busy most days, out and about; not just machines 24/7. Last thing I want is to be restricted (likely in middle of day) to give something for free, with a strong possibility of a no show. However, I do always notice a weird trend…. Here’s an example. A FREE EMPTY CAB - people act like flies round shit. A complete cab, with £300 of parts inside - listed for £300, ….. much harder. Find the logic 🙈 I have given away empty cabinets before, but when they’re this rotten, and so little desirable it’s a different story.

Ah ok missed that in the details that’s the right colour then

The whole cab was cleaned inside and out and any bits not right replaced such as tube level sensor rubber bands etc

[I have the datapak ticked in my layout and they work ok. but here's a few more roms to try... rhrt14 additional roms.zip

These seem to run OK in MFME. Hope they help RHRT14.zip

I remembered an old thread about this, found it was 2019! Might be of some help: https://www.fruitemu.co.uk/ib/topic/21442-bfm-cops-n-robbers/#comment-328340

You loved that little paragraph in that manual didn’t you …🍋

It's to do with the rise of "unscrupulous individuals" at the time! 😉

I’ve been noticing this a lot lately you have machines from 1984 with mechs from the late 90s on them,I have a cash zone which should have the original ms115 fitted from 1990 that has an me126dfx fitted….ms115 seems virtually extinct..

Fair enough I stand corrected..

Pin 5 (IC23) is at ground anyway. Pin 4 comes off of IC24 pin 6. The diagram is wrong here as it shows pin 3. So being as it's used as a timer it should change state after a few seconds, I think low?

Below is the function chart for the 138 which might give you more of a clue as to what the inputs / outputs are doing and their function. Below is some information on the hopper, something i would try if i had the machine in front of me (probably out of desperation is disconnect the supply to the hopper (pin 1 only 24v) and see if it trys to boot any further. It may or may not but worth a try for how long it takes. I have just done a board here with very mild battery damage, just a clean up. Put it back in the machine and all ok apart from the seven segs were all missing one segment and the last three were not working at all. Back out removed and tested associated ics (all ok ). Put it back in to probe it and bugger me worked and has continued to do so. Thats what i hate. Still seems like it is some contamination and or leaky component causing it.

Sorry to hear this,, the sys80 looked a rare one,, I have all the parts and could of helped you along the way ,

That’s shit! I have been there too with a silly price lineup. Someone must have offered him a grand or something

Can’t see what error you have, but it’s known for the hopper driver boards to burn out. just like with solenoids, and battery leaks the payout constantly fires/spins. I would say concentrate on switch issue first as may be related to that, and needs to be fixed regardless

I think you are right on both counts. I have just had a look on one of mine and although it has not got a hopper it has got the extended game card and that square chip near the aux 3 connector on the game card is a 68681 DUART which makes sense, so power from pl10 and information from aux3 on the game card. So that is a dead end as none of the tracks that directly go to the hopper are anywhere near the battery area. As Bob says a screwed up switch matrix can make them do funny things and something else i would look at which realy can do strange things is the RAM, although it looks quite clean in the photo it is in the battery area.

As a complete guess (but logical) and i may be completely wrong but heres my two peneth worth. Since you have mentioned that about the hopper is the alarm maybe Unexpected Pay Out.🤔

You should see pulsing outputs on pins 7-15. The ones we're interested in go to IC22 so make sure the outputs on 3,6,8 and 11 are good. Depending on what switches are operated you should then see good outputs on IC33 & 34. These two are in the firing line for the battery vapours and can do funny things. I think I've mentioned this already.

I’m on holiday at the moment, so not with a machine.. BUT hopefully this helps. with the route plug in place, it’s either top two left side, or top left, and bottom left. 90% sure it’s the former, you can link these without a plug if you wish, but a plug would be cleaner unless you have some link tabs there

Power, Power, Power. We have all done it and will no doubt continue to do so, start off and get side tracked, cant see the the wood for the trees scenario. Well done Bob, another interesting read. Didnt realise Caroline was still going, just had a look on their home page and the solar power meter for the Orford Transmitter made me chuckle.

Two pins on route plug for mars mech need to be linked to accept 10ps (two end ones)

Dont know if this helps or hinders but below is the razzle connections showing 10p never enabled but it does show the inhibit lines which maybe of some help.

Thanks for the imput guys Bob I will check those switches first today thanks Graham, it's a multi mech so electronic, but the token slot is S10 and credits as it should, thanks Nick, No I never removed the loom from big shot but did compare the pin voltages to razzle they were the same and fuse was intact, thanks

Just a thought ronnie but you did say you changed the mech cable? Did you try that cable in another machine? Also those cables do have a fuse in some cases and needs to be working and not blown obviously so assumed you checked it .

Just guessing but are are the micro switch connectors on the correct tabs ie the no and nc haven't got switched?

That output through the burnt resistor is part of the switch matrix, it that's not working right you'll get all funny things happening with the switches.