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No more chr chips... :)


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Tested a few more BWBs - definitely works on quite a few :) 

BWB Andy Capp     FAIL
BWB Super Hyper Viper     OK
BWB Viva Espana     OK
BWB Viz     OK
BWB Voodoo Express     256k (tried it - Characterise error)
BWB Winner Takes All     OK
BWB Big 40 Poker (MPU4 VIDEO)    

OK

 

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Wow man.  I fumbled with my real life BWB and was able to clone the chr and patch other to work on the Monte Carlo chr chip ;)   It was a lot of luck involved for me though.  Your method seems the way forward for sure ;)   Great work bud, really this will help anyone that has real hardware but not a lot of original game boards ;)

J

Edited by orchid
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Is it the larger 128k bank switching roms that don’t work with your tool John?  Or is it dependent on the year etc?  So later machines do it differently.  I know I couldn’t patch a couple of later BWB video machines with my cloning technique.  Probably early 1997 machine.  Forget the name will check tomorrow..  It could have just been an error on my part possibly though ;)

J

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46 minutes ago, orchid said:

Is it the larger 128k bank switching roms that don’t work with your tool John?  Or is it dependent on the year etc?  So later machines do it differently.  I know I couldn’t patch a couple of later BWB video machines with my cloning technique.  Probably early 1997 machine.  Forget the name will check tomorrow..  It could have just been an error on my part possibly though ;)

J

Not sure of the pattern - but I've not seen a rom bigger than 64k work yet I don't think, and I tested a few... plus their sigs looked odd... suspect I'll need to do more R&D to get the bigger ones working, dunno when I'll get round to it though. 

If anyone could find some hacked 128k roms from the archives (hacked stakes or whatever), then we could analyse them and see how it was done (unless it was never done) :)   Or if anyone can deal with debugging the 6809, with time more hacks could be developed... it's all time-consuming though innit, I'll probably just keep fettling the 64k stuff when I get a spare hour here and there for now :) 

Another option is to automate MFME or MAME, to load/run the roms - so if you have say 300 possible branch instructions that you might want to try messing with, you automate trying each one in turn, then skipping onto next if you get Bad Chr message on the vfd, or if you detect beeping on the audio etc... Plus tat could be done threaded, so you could have 4 concurrent instances - as a slow but not terrible way to attempt some brute force tactics.

Another way would be using MAME and logging the PC for the 6809 to text file with good/hacked rom - see where the divergence(s) are etc...

Anyone wants to get involved, please do!  I've not the time to invest unfortunately - though I'd imagine the ones that don't work yet can be understood :)  I'm just throwing out ideas other coders could try if the manual debugging ends up being crazy... 

Another idea could even be:  Use cheat engine or whatever to slow MFME down, run and screen capture video of boot process with debugger showing... maybe takes 8-24 hours or something, but then you have a video of it with every instruction being run.  Then do the same for the patched rom that breaks.  With the vidoe editing software, get both streams synced to the start frame - then just scan through and find the divergence visually.  Bit bodgy, but I guess it save having to get a compiled Mame up and running.  It is super bodgy though lol :) 

Edited by johnparker007
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8 hours ago, orchid said:

It could be a dip switching, I’ve never seen any Blue Moon pay 50p, it should pay 10’s for that win.

What version is it, software revision?

J

Maybe we could get a dump of the rom?

J

It's not done on dip switches as slotto tried all of them.

Also he tested all 3 tube sensors.

It seems to have more wires on the orange switches lead.

Also,we tried the rom card in my cloud 999 and Nickelodean.

On Nickelodean it paid out a 20p token vice a 50p.

 

The roms show as 0.3 on power up.

I have tried a few sets of roms that were offered on here

and they all alarmed for bad chr.

And one set had lights not working and hold buttons not working 

0.3 version roms must be a test set or a trial set of early roms!

Screenshot_20210908-010612_Video Player.jpg

Edited by Line Up Chris
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5 hours ago, Line Up Chris said:

It's not done on dip switches as slotto tried all of them.

Also he tested all 3 tube sensors.

It seems to have more wires on the orange switches lead.

Also,we tried the rom card in my cloud 999 and Nickelodean.

On Nickelodean it paid out a 20p token vice a 50p.

 

The roms show as 0.3 on power up.

I have tried a few sets of roms that were offered on here

and they all alarmed for bad chr.

And one set had lights not working and hold buttons not working 

0.3 version roms must be a test set or a trial set of early roms!

Screenshot_20210908-010612_Video Player.jpg

If you want to try it, here's a Chr free patched version - it's v2.3 from the latest MFME layout.

So you could remove your old ROM and try this one (as it should work without Chr), if you have the means to burn it to a spare chip...

Blue Moon v2.3 ROM Chr Free.zip

 

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@orchid Hey man :)  So I've had another request:

I have a Las Vegas 6 machine that's currently on 5p/ £4 and the glass is for 10p/£6 and obviously I'd rather not cut the glass!

The only ROMs I have are the ones for the MFME layouts - they are all 20p/£6 (It patches Chr-free fine though).  Is that any good to him, can he change to 10p via dip switches?  Or would we need a dedicated '10p rom' in cases like this?

Cheers for any help mate, I know you're a rom/real machine master, I'm just using the ones that come with the MFME layouts!  No idea if the stake is hardcoded in or if DIPs can change stuff like that :) 

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2 hours ago, johnparker007 said:

If you want to try it, here's a Chr free patched version - it's v2.3 from the latest MFME layout.

So you could remove your old ROM and try this one (as it should work without Chr), if you have the means to burn it to a spare chip...

Blue Moon v2.3 ROM Chr Free.zip

 

Thanks J

Don't have the means to burn this or have any chips

unless someone fancies a quick jobby lol😂😂😂

 

Mine is 20p/£4.80 with Blue Moon jp tune.

 

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40 minutes ago, Line Up Chris said:

Thanks J

Don't have the means to burn this or have any chips

unless someone fancies a quick jobby lol😂😂😂

 

Mine is 20p/£4.80 with Blue Moon jp tune.

 

That ROM is from this layout which is 20p/£4.80 looking at the decals, so should work fine :) 

5ac159fe49709_BlueMoonDX_1.thumb.jpg.dfe1662f7a0912aca4475de4aa85065f.jpg

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4 hours ago, johnparker007 said:

@orchid Hey man :)  So I've had another request:

I have a Las Vegas 6 machine that's currently on 5p/ £4 and the glass is for 10p/£6 and obviously I'd rather not cut the glass!

The only ROMs I have are the ones for the MFME layouts - they are all 20p/£6 (It patches Chr-free fine though).  Is that any good to him, can he change to 10p via dip switches?  Or would we need a dedicated '10p rom' in cases like this?

Cheers for any help mate, I know you're a rom/real machine master, I'm just using the ones that come with the MFME layouts!  No idea if the stake is hardcoded in or if DIPs can change stuff like that :) 

I imagine we have a 10p £6 version.

I won’t be getting involved in any rom hacking any time soon.  It would be easier to replace the decal than hack these stake dedicated roms. I will check though as I’m pretty sure there will be a 10p £6 version in the archive, I’ve certainly played many on that setting in the wild, these lower stake rebuilds aren’t usually switchable, so hacking is just a labour of love ;)

J

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Whoever wanted them, these are the BWB 10p £6 jackpot version.  They are CHR protected at present.  It seems to be a Barcrest CHR protection so maybe John could work his magic.  They boot in MFME.  It shouldn't matter that they are BWB, but to be fair this is probably the version you have, I believe most if not all rebuilds where carried out by BWB.

Hope it helps ;)

J

vv_10_k_.rar

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2 hours ago, orchid said:

I imagine we have a 10p £6 version.

I won’t be getting involved in any rom hacking any time soon.  It would be easier to replace the decal than hack these stake dedicated roms. I will check though as I’m pretty sure there will be a 10p £6 version in the archive, I’ve certainly played many on that setting in the wild, these lower stake rebuilds aren’t usually switchable, so hacking is just a labour of love ;)

J

All good to know info, thanks mate :) 

When you say 'in the archive'.. is this like an official centralised FME rom archive that can be browsed/downloaded from somewhere?  I guess ultimately I could end up batch-patching all MPU3/4 ROMs in that archive, doing some sort of automated verification with an emulator, then adding them to the archive... 

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2 minutes ago, orchid said:

Whoever wanted them, these are the BWB 10p £6 jackpot version.  They are CHR protected at present.  It seems to be a Barcrest CHR protection so maybe John could work his magic.  They boot in MFME.  It shouldn't matter that they are BWB, but to be fair this is probably the version you have, I believe most if not all rebuilds where carried out by BWB.

Hope it helps ;)

J

vv_10_k_.rar 37.71 kB · 0 downloads

Ta very much mate I'll try patch those tonight, and update here and post them if they patch ok - hopefully should :) 

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1 hour ago, stonyat421 said:

sinbad and mag7 are 128kb  il have look later pretty sure i have the roms 

any joy with cash counter i am sure superbank would be grateful 😁quick check on mag7 chr no problem but lamps are all over the place 😏 

I did do the Cash Counter one and post a vid a bit back - here's the patched ROM :)  It's £4 jackpot as that's what the layouts have in MFME

c318d - CPR patched Chr Free £4 jackpot.zip

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5 hours ago, orchid said:

Whoever wanted them, these are the BWB 10p £6 jackpot version.  They are CHR protected at present.  It seems to be a Barcrest CHR protection so maybe John could work his magic.  They boot in MFME.  It shouldn't matter that they are BWB, but to be fair this is probably the version you have, I believe most if not all rebuilds where carried out by BWB.

Hope it helps ;)

J

vv_10_k_.rar 37.71 kB · 1 download

I can patch it so it doesn't need Chr chip to run... but :) ...then we do need the BWB lamp column of the Chr working out again for BWB if someone wanted to use it in a real machine - as there's no BWB Viva Las Vegas MFME layout to copy it from, only the 8x Barcrest lamp values which are wrong for the BWB rom.

 As you know with making your many layouts over the years ;)... they can be trial-and-errored to get the right values - it's a bit of a time-consuming jobby though!

So the real machine with this BWB ROM would look like this at present:
image.thumb.png.2721ccdb9c21a9a821c1b8335f2019a4.png

No Chr chip required for booting... but the correct BWB values need finding out to go in the custom lamp routine that 'emulates' the effect of the Chr chip on the CPU register. 

Here's the patched ROM with wrong lamp table set up if anyone is interested for research purposes - it's of no real use though! :) 
vv_10_k_.3_3_Viva Las Vegas BWB 10p £6 jackpot from JJ_PATCHED.zip

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4 hours ago, orchid said:

Yeah I have a fairly up to date set mate. I can either send you a one drive link or stick on usb when I see you ;)

J

Ah nice one mate :)  No rush for now, as it's a long way off since it'll be quite a time before I get this project to that state ;)   I'll just patch requests as they come in for now, if I can with whatever it can currently patch - and then keep chipping away an hour here and there, at the future stuff like batch processing all the Roms that exist for each machine :) 

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Brilliant work everyone this is what scares me the most about my mpu4 machines is the chr going tits up , but with the progress and dedication you guys are putting into this  is fantastic thank you very much everyone 👍from mpu4 lover ♥️ 

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On 9/8/2021 at 9:21 AM, Line Up Chris said:

Thanks J

Don't have the means to burn this or have any chips

unless someone fancies a quick jobby lol😂😂😂

 

Mine is 20p/£4.80 with Blue Moon jp tune.

 

Ill burn a chip for you... Inbox me! 

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