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Making 3D EWN - can you help?

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Thought I'd post my progress here after a few hours work.

I was keen to make an Each Way Nudger from scratch in 3D (possibly VR as well). I would be grateful for any graphics / scans of the glass, decals etc. for the full nostalgia.

I've made the reels, spin and win detect logic and it looks quite nice so far.

Next thing I plan to do is add a bot routine to sim-play it for random tweaking, with some AI for the way I'd play it with holds.
After that comes the gambling and nudging stuff and finally put it all in a nice 3D model with all the fx.
Maybe I'll even have a bank of them so you could decide which ones to play, just like we did in the arcades when we were kids :)
Anyway, it would be nice if someone could help with supplying any graphics from the EWN unit. I'm using a nice set of fruits here which aren't the original ones, but the best I could find so far. The positions on the reels are correct as far as I know.

 

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1 hour ago, nzo said:

Thought I'd post my progress here after a few hours work.

I was keen to make an Each Way Nudger from scratch in 3D (possibly VR as well). I would be grateful for any graphics / scans of the glass, decals etc. for the full nostalgia.

I've made the reels, spin and win detect logic and it looks quite nice so far.

Next thing I plan to do is add a bot routine to sim-play it for random tweaking, with some AI for the way I'd play it with holds.
After that comes the gambling and nudging stuff and finally put it all in a nice 3D model with all the fx.
Maybe I'll even have a bank of them so you could decide which ones to play, just like we did in the arcades when we were kids :)
Anyway, it would be nice if someone could help with supplying any graphics from the EWN unit. I'm using a nice set of fruits here which aren't the original ones, but the best I could find so far. The positions on the reels are correct as far as I know.

 

is this for a mk1 or mk2  if its a mk2 think the bands are wrong you could have the ews mk2 bands 

EWN MK2.jpeg

EWS MK2 reelbands.jpg

Edited by stonyat421

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That's useful, thanks.

I'll check them.

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If you are doing MK1 I still have this in my old attachments folder

3551.attach

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im pretty sure i still have some pics of the ewn mk1 /ewn mk2 and ews mk2 bands that allan did somewhere on the comp if you need them il dig them out 

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On 9/3/2019 at 10:38 PM, nzo said:

Thought I'd post my progress here after a few hours work.

I was keen to make an Each Way Nudger from scratch in 3D (possibly VR as well). I would be grateful for any graphics / scans of the glass, decals etc. for the full nostalgia.

I've made the reels, spin and win detect logic and it looks quite nice so far.

Next thing I plan to do is add a bot routine to sim-play it for random tweaking, with some AI for the way I'd play it with holds.
After that comes the gambling and nudging stuff and finally put it all in a nice 3D model with all the fx.
Maybe I'll even have a bank of them so you could decide which ones to play, just like we did in the arcades when we were kids :)
Anyway, it would be nice if someone could help with supplying any graphics from the EWN unit. I'm using a nice set of fruits here which aren't the original ones, but the best I could find so far. The positions on the reels are correct as far as I know.

 

Very nice, how have you done those reels? I tried unity which kida worked quickly but didn't look like that. 

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What a fantastic start , they look brilliant looking forward to seeing the finished project 😊 

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I made a mesh like a cake tin with no bottom.

The texture for each reel is created at run-time using an image atlas and a data list for the order.

This way, it's simple to specify any combination of any set of symbols. I'm fixed on 20 symbols per reel for now, which is OK. 

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As part of my sim, I've added a function in to look at randomisation to help with determining payouts.

Interestingly enough, I've found that even simulating millions of 10p coins in my sim, the payout comes out at about 30% for no holds, nudges and so on - just a pure random result (or at least based on the seeds I have used)
I was always fascinated by the fruit layout on these machines and it may be interesting to see how different layouts perform on a purely random sequence.

It will be fun to add a play-bot to this sim to see what kind of improvements it makes when I add ranked hold preferences based on the type of play I would prefer. Maybe interesting if I publish my "hold" preferences and see if / what sort of behaviour impacts the result.

I am not aware of any code on the chips that control or influence the randomisation (if there indeed is any) and wondered if anyone had any insights into how payout percentages were controlled on these machines, other than via the gamble/nudge opportunities?

 

Edited by nzo

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15 hours ago, nzo said:

As part of my sim, I've added a function in to look at randomisation to help with determining payouts.

Interestingly enough, I've found that even simulating millions of 10p coins in my sim, the payout comes out at about 30% for no holds, nudges and so on - just a pure random result (or at least based on the seeds I have used)
I was always fascinated by the fruit layout on these machines and it may be interesting to see how different layouts perform on a purely random sequence.

It will be fun to add a play-bot to this sim to see what kind of improvements it makes when I add ranked hold preferences based on the type of play I would prefer. Maybe interesting if I publish my "hold" preferences and see if / what sort of behaviour impacts the result.

I am not aware of any code on the chips that control or influence the randomisation (if there indeed is any) and wondered if anyone had any insights into how payout percentages were controlled on these machines, other than via the gamble/nudge opportunities?

 

if its mps2 i think percentages  are controlled by the mpu by putting machine in  test mode i could be wrong though maybe some one else has more invo 

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On 9/9/2019 at 2:00 AM, nzo said:

As part of my sim, I've added a function in to look at randomisation to help with determining payouts.

Interestingly enough, I've found that even simulating millions of 10p coins in my sim, the payout comes out at about 30% for no holds, nudges and so on - just a pure random result (or at least based on the seeds I have used)
I was always fascinated by the fruit layout on these machines and it may be interesting to see how different layouts perform on a purely random sequence.

It will be fun to add a play-bot to this sim to see what kind of improvements it makes when I add ranked hold preferences based on the type of play I would prefer. Maybe interesting if I publish my "hold" preferences and see if / what sort of behaviour impacts the result.

I am not aware of any code on the chips that control or influence the randomisation (if there indeed is any) and wondered if anyone had any insights into how payout percentages were controlled on these machines, other than via the gamble/nudge opportunities?

 

I strongly believe the original machine is pure random and that payout percentage is controlled by number of holds given, nudge feature frequency and the number of nudges available. 

I would make a function to always nudge in the best result (people knew these reel bands off by heart) so not an unrealistic thing to do.

Then start with a hit rate for nudges (say 1 in 50 games) as a starting point. 

Start with awarding the  number of nudges on a totally random basis 1 to 10.

With the above you should be able to get to the percentage you want be altering those variables.

I would look at the holds last. This will make a difference but getting the percentage about right before is what i would target.

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21 hours ago, stonyat421 said:

if its mps2 i think percentages  are controlled by the mpu by putting machine in  test mode i could be wrong though maybe some one else has more invo 

I think the MPS version would use compensators so not randomly driven. Using compensators makes it much easier to control percentage.

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I know on a system 80 game I had called Piggybank, I wired a relay to the win lamp with the contacts connected to the gamble button.

The poor machine won every gamble to jackpot and it did indeed reduce the winlines and features to reduce payout.

It was funny as hell to see the desperation of the program kicking in to reduce the %

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I had a Piggybank. Nice game, but kept locking up - always having to reset it. Good job JPM provided a reset switch! The game was effectively Super Bank and would have had quite a lot of compensation. EWN isn't one I've played a lot so can't comment, but would guess it would have some simple controls, like hold%, roll-off (possibly not) and feature trigger chance. Eachway Shuffles definitely did, as I remember older boys sparking them with oven lighters at our local skating rink. My guess is they start off in a good mood and don't remember when powered down. Either that or they were triggering a full reset.

I did a similar wiring job with a Club Valentine. I wired the start button up to the 10p insert, so every time you pressed start you got a credit for the next game. Worked a treat until it blew the board lol. Game over :(

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On 9/10/2019 at 2:34 PM, Player said:

I strongly believe the original machine is pure random and that payout percentage is controlled by number of holds given, nudge feature frequency and the number of nudges available. 

I would make a function to always nudge in the best result (people knew these reel bands off by heart) so not an unrealistic thing to do.

Then start with a hit rate for nudges (say 1 in 50 games) as a starting point. 

Start with awarding the  number of nudges on a totally random basis 1 to 10.

With the above you should be able to get to the percentage you want be altering those variables.

I would look at the holds last. This will make a difference but getting the percentage about right before is what i would target.

I'd already added the most basic hold logic in the sim only randomness, holding wins only. This pushes the overall win %age up to ~40% with a target hold chance at 20%

I will do the auto nudge and then the gamble, so I have all the parameters available for adjusting. It would be more aesthetically pleasing if it wasn't obvious if the game was trying to claw back money by obviously reducing just nudges or just holds or just gambles (or will it?). I'll get the rest of the sim behaviour in and then do some tweaking on the values.

 

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41 minutes ago, nzo said:

I'd already added the most basic hold logic in the sim only randomness, holding wins only. This pushes the overall win %age up to ~40% with a target hold chance at 20%

I will do the auto nudge and then the gamble, so I have all the parameters available for adjusting. It would be more aesthetically pleasing if it wasn't obvious if the game was trying to claw back money by obviously reducing just nudges or just holds or just gambles (or will it?). I'll get the rest of the sim behaviour in and then do some tweaking on the values.

 

Random is nice as that wouldn't happen. What would be good would to play the emulated version and get the hit rate for the nudge feature. Once you have that all you would need to do is alter the number of nudges. If the nudges didn't hit RTP being totally random. You could use a weight table to favour more nudges or less 😈.

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Nice-looking project so far - I wish you the best of luck with it :)

I used to love the Mk2's as a kid; really decent game-play and as you say, you never saw one on its own; they were always lined-up together in a row.

Most of the Mk2's round my way had the 'newer' reel-bands, which had a cherry above the JPM on reel 1 and only one melon on reel 2.  But there were definitely some with the older reel-bands; plum above JPM on reel 1 and loads of extra melons and grapes on reel 2.  With the 'cherry' reel-bands you very rarely ever got more than 7 nudges, but on the 'plum' version you did see 8, 9 or 10 nudges from time to time.  The Mk2's were superb games which seemed very fair.  They got the balance just right.

The Mk3's were absolutely dire by comparison - horrible cabinet, daft nudge music and far too many games with nudges, so much so that you nearly always got 1 less than the number you needed.  The £2.40 jackpot didn't help either of course.  Disgusting games really, although the later Crystal versions somehow managed to be even worse...

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Interesting results from adding nudges (partially) to the sim.

So, when I added AI nudging (assuming the AI knows the reels) then the payout rocketed on my original randomiser.

I tweaked the reel spin function a bit before I started with the nudge function and got a better landing for certain combos which were rare or excluded.
Using these rates: Hold chance of 20% and executed on wins only (not intuitive holds) increased the non-hold payout to 40% (just random reel spins were at about 30%, but I've tweaked that up a bit now)

I only added melons and pears to the AI nudger function and got a new 140% payout.
The nudge chance is 10%, with the AI selecting the best direction. The nudge count is just random 1-10

This is good in one way, as it means I'll definitely have to add some weight controls. I'll plug the rest of the wins into the nudge AI and see what it ends up with there.

Edited by nzo

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How are you picking the reel positions?

"I tweaked the reel spin function"

Why not just pick the positions totally random? 

And what does "I only added melons and pears to the AI nudger function" mean?

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